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Hektor Catalan's avatar

You say "matter is not always present in experiencing, for example when we are dreaming", but matter can't be experienced either, we don't experience the world only the perceptions we have of it, so your statement is wrong, of course, our perception of the world isn't there when we are dreaming. If you look closely at this concept you will realize what you call experiencing is not consciousness (as if you could had a direct notion of what consciousness even is), what you call consciousness and experiencing is your perception, in which the world (another perception) appears within. Following this thread, most certainly, "matter", a perception of the world is indeed within "consciousness" a basic perception, and consciousness is prior to matter. But it's all conceptualization from your own experience. My thoughts are that from my personal view I see when you talk about consciousness or experiencing being prior to matter, you are just talking about the functioning of the front parts of your brain in interaction with the back parts of your brain because at last that's all you can know. Otherwise this conceptualization just doesn't make any sense. What we have always called Spiritual Realization is just the freedom from judgement, interpretation, observation, the sense of I, the sense of time, the sense of space, and from so called aliveness, and in my opinion it all comes from the brain. We can just talk that far about our perception, thoughts, and feelings. Hope you're quiet about this topic, I've seen most people who are arguing this are very anxious about it, the very result of the effort to understand life so hard. If we are honest and in truth, we don't really care about understanding life, we care about understanding ourselves with the only purpose of finding peace and live better, but if there is not enough calm, the cause or root for that lack of calm, might be other than spiritual realization. Spirituality doesn't solve any problem really and it just gives you freedom from the conditioned mind, so that is the crux of all this topic and not consciousness or matter. It's just that spiritual masters are not honest, although some are, like for example Jiddu Krishnamurti talked a lot about freedom of conditioned mind specifically.

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Dennis Gallagher's avatar

Good one.

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