This is a message sent to me by Roque Torres Moreira, a member of the Depending On Nothing Facebook group. I shared it here a year ago, but so many new people are subscribed now that it feels worthwhile to post it again for them to see. Highly recommended.
So glad you decided to share this again! I had not seen it. So beautifully put. And the description of "the smoke from the embers of some belief" really spoke to me. To use the same metaphor, I feel like I have in a way put out the fire of belief, but am still quite often enveloped in the smoke.
Thanks for sharing this Robert. I can’t help but see the whole spiritual searching as some sort of self-absorbed escapism.
Many of the great wisdom teachings emphasize our humanness by being kind to others. But people often overlook this simplicity and search for a ‘spiritual awakening’ which in my opinion is a fantasy and focused in the wrong direction.
Thank you, Robert, for sharing, and thank you to others for your kind comments.
As I said at the beginning, a satori is non-transferable, but if the circumstance arises and it is appropriate, we can share the story and talk about it.
When a sudden, sudden, unexpected satori appears, clean of any doubt, there is also the certainty that there is no road that leads to it: it is a lightning bolt that falls on you, whether you are walking or sitting, or drinking a gin and tonic... just there, when you do not expect it. In the second satori I was not in a room with candles, incense and good vibes, no, I was in a city hall office, and politicians hovering nearby... I would never have imagined it like that.
That is why a satori is never what we had thought, never what we had expected, never what others have already said. Nor is it that you remain perpetually awake. Nothing like that, personality and habits have a lot of strength, and one continues to be an asshole from time to time, at least that's what happens to me. But it does give you the clarity to see, and the energy to throw the crutches overboard, and leave the budha mortally wounded.
However, killing Budha is no joke. Authority carries a lot of weight, it is deeply ingrained, and questioning it may not be easy: am I a conceited fool, or am I a bold ignoramus who doesn't understand? Don't listen to those little voices: questioning authority is the beginning of wisdom. .......
*I use the word “satori” because it is a word we are all familiar with to refer to that sudden, overwhelming and complete experience in itself.
What a wonderful comment. This is as good as the original piece. As for the original, yes, everyone is different, and nothing is transferable, but we coincide 100 percent on this:
This is like a joke. How could I have missed this? This has always been here.
Thanks for this also Roque. I feel it's important to point out that an awakening can also be quite rude. It may be a sudden shift as described here, or as in many other cases. The essential factor for me is the ending of illusion, to a greater or lesser degree. In other words, disillusionment. This is not always necessarily a pleasant experience, and more often than not can be quite unpleasant. Grief and loss can be particularly rigorous teachers. Though there have been many 'aha' moments, of varying import, in my own experience it's been loss and desolation that has moved me towards a deeper sensing of there being no separation.
Each person is different, Juan. In my case also the disillusionment produced vertigo, but the feeling of surprise, energy and clarity was stronger. I do not perceive it as something unpleasant, on the contrary, it was a relief to unload the backpack of useless nonsense and suffering.
Yes, I understand. The unloading is clearly the upside, for me also. Robert speaks of awakening and deliverance. An initial awakening, whether pleasant or rude, may take time for integration in ones ongoing experience, due to the persistence of habitual thinking in terms of a separate self. In that sense I suppose we could say that not only does awakening never end, neither does deliverance. No conclusion, and not moving towards one, except for death itself. I find myself having zero concern as to whether or not I am or not awake, and whether deliverance is progressing at the right tempo. Irrelevant questions, only interesting when they show up in an exchange.
Yes! …”questioning authority is the beginning of wisdom”. So important to step out of the matrix and truly ‘see’ that although the self interested show must go on, while being embodied, it is just that, a play, a show. On the other side, is an abiding energy that is absolutely unaffected by the ‘Tina/me show’.
Thanks for asking for clarification Roque. For me — I’m speaking of the conditioned self as opposed to the higher Self that is the deeper wisdom and expresses as love. Discerning what the ‘small stuff’ is.
Thank you, Tina, Answer so I know what you mean, but why distinguish? What is happening, including the belief in a higher self is happening here, love is happening here, everything is happening in this aliveness. Besides, how can you know that there is a permanent energy and that nothing affects it, you will understand that no one can know this.
Thank you for sharing this beautiful testimony. I’m still hoping someday it can happen to me too, but I’m very deeply convinced that there’s nothing “I” can do about it, and I guess that’s already a lot
Hope “may” be an obstacle, or not, but one cannot willingly despair. As John Troy says, “the remedy is to exhaust all remedies,” yet there are no guarantees. If it happens to you it's not going to be what you expected, so it's not worth hoping for anything, just question your beliefs and be there where your breath is.... and let it be “whatever god wants”.
I have a question about what is said in this post. Roque mentioned, with his own words, that he saw that his thoughts can never awaken.
I have thought about the words and it had me wonder if what is meant by that is what you, Robert, call ”finding your own mind”? (Finding your own mind in that case translated to my own understanding would then be; “seeing how the mind operates”.)
In a meditation I had for a moment ago I could see that thought deliberately tried grasping something only to yet again subside like a wave in the ocean
In this sense we are already awake and always were, it is just that we misidentified ourselves or took ourselves to be that which is seeking. In reality thought can never awaken because it is just something that comes and goes.. Does this make sense? Thank you in advance.
Since you mention me, if I may, I would like to make my comment.
Everything comes and goes, y there is no end to research. I know friends who have been meditating for more than fifty years, following masters and waiting for future enlightenment. When I read “spiritual books” I had the feeling that the “final” understanding was only one step away, and that this step seemed to be on the next page, or in the next book, or in the next reflection, or in the next moment, or in the next meditation. Always the feeling of being about to give birth. But the “birth” happened where it was not expected, in a municipal office, who would have thought! At that moment I was left without personal history, the thought stopped and the energetic consciousness of my awakened animality emerged. The energy of thought circulated at high speed around and detached from what I felt as the body. I don't know why I saw it that way, but all the spiritual chatter was also detached, and it became clear that there is NOTHING TO UNDERSTAND, and this is precisely what is difficult to understand.
So glad you decided to share this again! I had not seen it. So beautifully put. And the description of "the smoke from the embers of some belief" really spoke to me. To use the same metaphor, I feel like I have in a way put out the fire of belief, but am still quite often enveloped in the smoke.
Breathtakingly told! Thanks for re-sharing this, Robert. I had not seen it before and sure do appreciate it.
Beautiful read
Thanks for sharing this Robert. I can’t help but see the whole spiritual searching as some sort of self-absorbed escapism.
Many of the great wisdom teachings emphasize our humanness by being kind to others. But people often overlook this simplicity and search for a ‘spiritual awakening’ which in my opinion is a fantasy and focused in the wrong direction.
I agree. Kindness shows a deep understanding of our human situation.
Thank you so much. Very similar to my journey-I have never been able to express it all in words.
Love this!
Wow. Phew. Goosebumps. ❤️❤️😬
I agree with Don. Really exquisite share! Thank you very much!
Thank you, Robert, for sharing, and thank you to others for your kind comments.
As I said at the beginning, a satori is non-transferable, but if the circumstance arises and it is appropriate, we can share the story and talk about it.
When a sudden, sudden, unexpected satori appears, clean of any doubt, there is also the certainty that there is no road that leads to it: it is a lightning bolt that falls on you, whether you are walking or sitting, or drinking a gin and tonic... just there, when you do not expect it. In the second satori I was not in a room with candles, incense and good vibes, no, I was in a city hall office, and politicians hovering nearby... I would never have imagined it like that.
That is why a satori is never what we had thought, never what we had expected, never what others have already said. Nor is it that you remain perpetually awake. Nothing like that, personality and habits have a lot of strength, and one continues to be an asshole from time to time, at least that's what happens to me. But it does give you the clarity to see, and the energy to throw the crutches overboard, and leave the budha mortally wounded.
However, killing Budha is no joke. Authority carries a lot of weight, it is deeply ingrained, and questioning it may not be easy: am I a conceited fool, or am I a bold ignoramus who doesn't understand? Don't listen to those little voices: questioning authority is the beginning of wisdom. .......
*I use the word “satori” because it is a word we are all familiar with to refer to that sudden, overwhelming and complete experience in itself.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
What a wonderful comment. This is as good as the original piece. As for the original, yes, everyone is different, and nothing is transferable, but we coincide 100 percent on this:
This is like a joke. How could I have missed this? This has always been here.
Que bien, Robert, me alegra mucho.
Yes, that comprehension of how could something so obvious have been hidden for so long! is a very strong impact.
Thank you for the additional insight shared here.
Beautifully described (as best it can be) in both texts.
I so appreciate you for sharing and Robert for passing it along
Thank you, I am glad
Thanks for this also Roque. I feel it's important to point out that an awakening can also be quite rude. It may be a sudden shift as described here, or as in many other cases. The essential factor for me is the ending of illusion, to a greater or lesser degree. In other words, disillusionment. This is not always necessarily a pleasant experience, and more often than not can be quite unpleasant. Grief and loss can be particularly rigorous teachers. Though there have been many 'aha' moments, of varying import, in my own experience it's been loss and desolation that has moved me towards a deeper sensing of there being no separation.
Each person is different, Juan. In my case also the disillusionment produced vertigo, but the feeling of surprise, energy and clarity was stronger. I do not perceive it as something unpleasant, on the contrary, it was a relief to unload the backpack of useless nonsense and suffering.
Yes, I understand. The unloading is clearly the upside, for me also. Robert speaks of awakening and deliverance. An initial awakening, whether pleasant or rude, may take time for integration in ones ongoing experience, due to the persistence of habitual thinking in terms of a separate self. In that sense I suppose we could say that not only does awakening never end, neither does deliverance. No conclusion, and not moving towards one, except for death itself. I find myself having zero concern as to whether or not I am or not awake, and whether deliverance is progressing at the right tempo. Irrelevant questions, only interesting when they show up in an exchange.
I agree
Yes! …”questioning authority is the beginning of wisdom”. So important to step out of the matrix and truly ‘see’ that although the self interested show must go on, while being embodied, it is just that, a play, a show. On the other side, is an abiding energy that is absolutely unaffected by the ‘Tina/me show’.
Tina, I'm not sure what you mean by “On the other side, is an abiding energy that is absolutely unaffected by the ‘Tina/me show’”.
Thanks for asking for clarification Roque. For me — I’m speaking of the conditioned self as opposed to the higher Self that is the deeper wisdom and expresses as love. Discerning what the ‘small stuff’ is.
Does that answer your question?
Thank you, Tina, Answer so I know what you mean, but why distinguish? What is happening, including the belief in a higher self is happening here, love is happening here, everything is happening in this aliveness. Besides, how can you know that there is a permanent energy and that nothing affects it, you will understand that no one can know this.
Roque thank you for your beautiful post.
Thank you for sharing this beautiful testimony. I’m still hoping someday it can happen to me too, but I’m very deeply convinced that there’s nothing “I” can do about it, and I guess that’s already a lot
Hope “may” be an obstacle, or not, but one cannot willingly despair. As John Troy says, “the remedy is to exhaust all remedies,” yet there are no guarantees. If it happens to you it's not going to be what you expected, so it's not worth hoping for anything, just question your beliefs and be there where your breath is.... and let it be “whatever god wants”.
Beautiful. The final sentence really moved me ❤️
I have a question about what is said in this post. Roque mentioned, with his own words, that he saw that his thoughts can never awaken.
I have thought about the words and it had me wonder if what is meant by that is what you, Robert, call ”finding your own mind”? (Finding your own mind in that case translated to my own understanding would then be; “seeing how the mind operates”.)
In a meditation I had for a moment ago I could see that thought deliberately tried grasping something only to yet again subside like a wave in the ocean
In this sense we are already awake and always were, it is just that we misidentified ourselves or took ourselves to be that which is seeking. In reality thought can never awaken because it is just something that comes and goes.. Does this make sense? Thank you in advance.
Since you mention me, if I may, I would like to make my comment.
Everything comes and goes, y there is no end to research. I know friends who have been meditating for more than fifty years, following masters and waiting for future enlightenment. When I read “spiritual books” I had the feeling that the “final” understanding was only one step away, and that this step seemed to be on the next page, or in the next book, or in the next reflection, or in the next moment, or in the next meditation. Always the feeling of being about to give birth. But the “birth” happened where it was not expected, in a municipal office, who would have thought! At that moment I was left without personal history, the thought stopped and the energetic consciousness of my awakened animality emerged. The energy of thought circulated at high speed around and detached from what I felt as the body. I don't know why I saw it that way, but all the spiritual chatter was also detached, and it became clear that there is NOTHING TO UNDERSTAND, and this is precisely what is difficult to understand.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Consciousness in full experienced through the taste of essence and the scent of the perfume of consciousness. Daniel
Now, if one could have any conversation without “I” (?).