I love this, Robert. I totally resonate. Beautifully put.
Where I have found actual value in spiritual teachings and teachers is when they point relentlessly to right here, right now (and to the okay-ness of what is, as it is), and/or when they point out and help me to see and/or experience aspects, dimensions or qualities of this present happening that I wasn't seeing or fully experiencing, and/or when they help me to see the habitual patterns of thought that are creating unnecessary suffering. I've been lucky to have some extraordinary teachers of this kind.
Where teachers and teachings have been unhelpful in my experience is when they project an image of themselves as fully enlightened authority figures who are beyond all human difficulty and who claim to totally understand with complete certainty how the universe works. This self-aggrandizement and lack of epistemological humility is the carrot that reinforces the thought-sense of present lack and then holds out the possibility of future transcendence.
The teachers who were helpful encouraged open exploration...finding my own mind, as you like to say. The other kind generated addictive seeking, trying to get what I believed they had and I lacked.
While I've always thought of you as a dear friend and not as a teacher, you have in fact been (and you continue to be) a teacher in the best sense, definitely the helpful kind, and I cherish our friendship and very deeply appreciate what you are offering in your writing and speaking. ❤️🙏
Thanks, Joan. I'm always pleased to hear from you. I think of you as a dear friend, too, and a fellow traveler in this mystery beyond comprehension. You get me, and it feels good to be gotten.
Our friendship has been a lesson to me, and so I suppose our public dialogue over the past years may have been a lesson to others as well. Perhaps we are both teaching while learning from one another.
I don't know what I might do or say next. I like it that way. When speaking or writing, when working with my camera, or when just walking around listening to my own thoughts, I'm often surprised by what emerges.
I think that is the mind of an artist, not a teacher. How could I possibly teach anyone not to fear their own mind, however strange thoughts and feelings may seem, and that no belief is final, so don't get stuck?
“This is making itself up as it goes, and that's the best way to be with it.” — Peter Brown
I love what you and Joan wrote here! For me Peter was really someone who had an extraordinary capacity to point out aspects of this nowness that I had never noticed -- his subtlety has seemed unmatched for me. Learning to see this dancing-ness in fresh and subtle ways is indeed like learning to see as an artist or poet or child or fool sees 🙏🏼
Indeed - "Be a lamp unto yourself"....once we've taken this sentence to heart, we are well advised to kill the buddha. Not to say that we won't necessarily get anything from encountering the ideas of others - just that we ultimately need to experience OUR lives from OUR perspectives, and that this cannot be done by proxy...however attractive that fantasy might at times appear to be. I wish you well. Merry Christmas from across the pond!
The honesty with which you write is refreshing. People don’t often admit that they don’t know. Or if they do, they finish it up with a “but” and the search continues or what if’s are shared endlessly. I think it’s because to admit that you don’t know, and to lay to rest the “seeker” is to be on your own. And on your own means standing on your own two feet. I think that can be very difficult in an age where answers are given as fast as the Internet can provide them or whoever is the latest “bro” with that special brand of wit that is taken for truth. I know this is the case for me. When I walked away from it all many years ago I felt very alone in a head spinning way. I saw that the answers were not my own but they were easy. Sometimes it’s a rough transition. And when life serves up heartache or death of loved ones, it’s tough. But to just be with it and know that if you need to learn something, you will, is what is real. Not second hand or hearsay. Thank you Robert. I’m sure that you have touched many just by being honest.
Thank you, Karen. To me, it seems that the fewer answers we adopt from others, the more space we have for self-discovery and for standing on our own two feet.
This morning thought “to thine own self be true”. It has to be from the Bible. Something I must have heard in my sketchy semi religious upbringing. So, that’s maybe what Joan sees as the baby to not throw out. 🎄😉
Nah. 'To thine own self be true' is a line from Shakespeare. The Bible is filled with violence, justifications for war and rape, and all manner of disgusting sentiments. There are some good parts too, but they are few and far between. The Bible is most definitely not what Joan sees as the baby, nor I.
The religions based on that unfortunate book are examples of bathwater.
I love this, Robert. I totally resonate. Beautifully put.
Where I have found actual value in spiritual teachings and teachers is when they point relentlessly to right here, right now (and to the okay-ness of what is, as it is), and/or when they point out and help me to see and/or experience aspects, dimensions or qualities of this present happening that I wasn't seeing or fully experiencing, and/or when they help me to see the habitual patterns of thought that are creating unnecessary suffering. I've been lucky to have some extraordinary teachers of this kind.
Where teachers and teachings have been unhelpful in my experience is when they project an image of themselves as fully enlightened authority figures who are beyond all human difficulty and who claim to totally understand with complete certainty how the universe works. This self-aggrandizement and lack of epistemological humility is the carrot that reinforces the thought-sense of present lack and then holds out the possibility of future transcendence.
The teachers who were helpful encouraged open exploration...finding my own mind, as you like to say. The other kind generated addictive seeking, trying to get what I believed they had and I lacked.
While I've always thought of you as a dear friend and not as a teacher, you have in fact been (and you continue to be) a teacher in the best sense, definitely the helpful kind, and I cherish our friendship and very deeply appreciate what you are offering in your writing and speaking. ❤️🙏
Thanks, Joan. I'm always pleased to hear from you. I think of you as a dear friend, too, and a fellow traveler in this mystery beyond comprehension. You get me, and it feels good to be gotten.
Our friendship has been a lesson to me, and so I suppose our public dialogue over the past years may have been a lesson to others as well. Perhaps we are both teaching while learning from one another.
I don't know what I might do or say next. I like it that way. When speaking or writing, when working with my camera, or when just walking around listening to my own thoughts, I'm often surprised by what emerges.
I think that is the mind of an artist, not a teacher. How could I possibly teach anyone not to fear their own mind, however strange thoughts and feelings may seem, and that no belief is final, so don't get stuck?
“This is making itself up as it goes, and that's the best way to be with it.” — Peter Brown
I love what you and Joan wrote here! For me Peter was really someone who had an extraordinary capacity to point out aspects of this nowness that I had never noticed -- his subtlety has seemed unmatched for me. Learning to see this dancing-ness in fresh and subtle ways is indeed like learning to see as an artist or poet or child or fool sees 🙏🏼
Indeed - "Be a lamp unto yourself"....once we've taken this sentence to heart, we are well advised to kill the buddha. Not to say that we won't necessarily get anything from encountering the ideas of others - just that we ultimately need to experience OUR lives from OUR perspectives, and that this cannot be done by proxy...however attractive that fantasy might at times appear to be. I wish you well. Merry Christmas from across the pond!
Thank you Stephen. All the best. Cheerio.
The honesty with which you write is refreshing. People don’t often admit that they don’t know. Or if they do, they finish it up with a “but” and the search continues or what if’s are shared endlessly. I think it’s because to admit that you don’t know, and to lay to rest the “seeker” is to be on your own. And on your own means standing on your own two feet. I think that can be very difficult in an age where answers are given as fast as the Internet can provide them or whoever is the latest “bro” with that special brand of wit that is taken for truth. I know this is the case for me. When I walked away from it all many years ago I felt very alone in a head spinning way. I saw that the answers were not my own but they were easy. Sometimes it’s a rough transition. And when life serves up heartache or death of loved ones, it’s tough. But to just be with it and know that if you need to learn something, you will, is what is real. Not second hand or hearsay. Thank you Robert. I’m sure that you have touched many just by being honest.
Thank you, Karen. To me, it seems that the fewer answers we adopt from others, the more space we have for self-discovery and for standing on our own two feet.
I sometimes feel that spiritual seekers are "hungry ghosts". It is a state of always being unfulfilled and wanting something to fill the void.
Another prime motivator is the fear of missing out.
For me it is also about ending suffering for myself and others. It is as if I could will it away if I knew the "truth".
Yes, that is an invitation to delusion.
Good stuff, Robert 🙏🏼❤️🔥
This morning thought “to thine own self be true”. It has to be from the Bible. Something I must have heard in my sketchy semi religious upbringing. So, that’s maybe what Joan sees as the baby to not throw out. 🎄😉
Nah. 'To thine own self be true' is a line from Shakespeare. The Bible is filled with violence, justifications for war and rape, and all manner of disgusting sentiments. There are some good parts too, but they are few and far between. The Bible is most definitely not what Joan sees as the baby, nor I.
The religions based on that unfortunate book are examples of bathwater.