Q: Perhaps this is all too intellectual and irrelevant, but given that the sense of being a separate independent long-lasting entity is produced by the brain, what are the factors which facilitate its dissolution?
I love that your questioner reveals their desire to be loved by daddy.
I see the whole wise guru on the chair the same desire.
So bored with the cultic/business nonsense that is the “spiritual marketplace”.
“I was on Level 1.3 but now I am on level 1.6”
Great that you reference Roger Waters’ (Pink Floyd) lyrics. IMO One of the coolest lyricists of our time.
“All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be..”
I think you might have enjoyed est, which was a somewhat controversial’enlightenment’ workshop created by Werner Erhard, who was IMO an interesting dude; studied Gurdjieff etc. I did the workshop many years ago in Bombay (primarily because it cost £25 there instead of £350 in the UK) I was at the time involved 3 months of intense “spiritual” practice in a nearby ashram; a type of self-hypnosis that put a lot of oxygen through the body (5 hours of chanting per day) and definitely in my case quietened the yama yama of conventional mind.
I had had some wonderful peak experiences; seeing clearly that there is only always one event that includes the figure and the ground. Experiencer and experience are one event. Nobody inside “having an experience” There is only ever this interpretation here and nothing possibly to be understood or gained.
The person leading the workshop was called a “trainer” and, over very long weekend sessions, the group and individual processes revealed how our minds and emotions are totally mechanical. Like mice in a maze, we are always seeking the tunnel where the cheese will be. Unlike mice, who stop going down the tunnel when there’s no cheese there anymore, we can spend a lifetime going down the same tunnel.
There happened to be a very famous Indian movie star among the 350 attendees and every time she stood up to share, there would be a ripple as the Indians recognized her. I had no idea who she was and every time she started telling her tale of woe (alcoholic abusive father etc.) the trainer would tell her to sit down. It was hilarious. She finally got it and got off her diva role..
After many, many hours of considerations and participatory processes revealing layer upon layer of the mechanical nature of our programming, the great revelation finally occurred, The trainer, like Toto in Oz, “pulled back the curtains” and announced, “you get what you get”. Period.
“ Hello.... helllo...hello... is there anybody out there?”
Thank you, Nicole. I am a truth teller, but life itself is the teacher, not. I. I can comment truthfully only on what is is like to be me--what I perceive, think, and feel--not what others should think or do. Each of us has our own row to hoe.
.. in an almost comically narcissism-promoting culture. No wonder so many don't notice their own need to love! Except perhaps in a demeaned form when watching cheesy animal videos with plinky canned music backgrounds. There's no authentic response to the world that can't be cheapened before being mined for a dollar. Though perhaps I'm being a tad snobbish. We all take our consolations where we can, and capacity to enjoy the existence of our nonhuman brothers and sisters is generally a decent sign that a person hasn't become entirely denatured.
Thanks Robert. Actually seeing the mechanical nature of the mind has given me an incredible sense of relief. UG and Niargadatta are two of my favorites. Just like them I never can detect an ounce of bs in you. Thanks again.
The BS fell away years ago. The first listener to anything one says is oneself, so if you talk shit, you are shitting in your own bed. This is a key point.
Just today I was wanting to get a large pizza for lunch. But then my mind started the back and forth about whether I should or shouldn't get it and what the right decision would be. I told myself that I already am pretty fit and healthy and that I can "afford" to have pizza. But then I thought that I shouldn't feel such desire for pizza and that I should be able to transcend and be free of such cravings and that I should always eat healthy. It was then that I noticed how I was grasping at transcending and being "spiritual", and this idea of how I should be superior to having the desire for pizza. But then I told myself to "lighten up" and that it was just pizza. I just laughed at myself and got the pizza... and since that desire had been fulfilled, my mind moved on to other issues it has. I did really enjoy eating it.
Just beautiful, Robert!
Find your own mind!
Stand in your own shoes.
Embrace your own craziness...
🤣
I love that your questioner reveals their desire to be loved by daddy.
I see the whole wise guru on the chair the same desire.
So bored with the cultic/business nonsense that is the “spiritual marketplace”.
“I was on Level 1.3 but now I am on level 1.6”
Great that you reference Roger Waters’ (Pink Floyd) lyrics. IMO One of the coolest lyricists of our time.
“All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be..”
I think you might have enjoyed est, which was a somewhat controversial’enlightenment’ workshop created by Werner Erhard, who was IMO an interesting dude; studied Gurdjieff etc. I did the workshop many years ago in Bombay (primarily because it cost £25 there instead of £350 in the UK) I was at the time involved 3 months of intense “spiritual” practice in a nearby ashram; a type of self-hypnosis that put a lot of oxygen through the body (5 hours of chanting per day) and definitely in my case quietened the yama yama of conventional mind.
I had had some wonderful peak experiences; seeing clearly that there is only always one event that includes the figure and the ground. Experiencer and experience are one event. Nobody inside “having an experience” There is only ever this interpretation here and nothing possibly to be understood or gained.
The person leading the workshop was called a “trainer” and, over very long weekend sessions, the group and individual processes revealed how our minds and emotions are totally mechanical. Like mice in a maze, we are always seeking the tunnel where the cheese will be. Unlike mice, who stop going down the tunnel when there’s no cheese there anymore, we can spend a lifetime going down the same tunnel.
There happened to be a very famous Indian movie star among the 350 attendees and every time she stood up to share, there would be a ripple as the Indians recognized her. I had no idea who she was and every time she started telling her tale of woe (alcoholic abusive father etc.) the trainer would tell her to sit down. It was hilarious. She finally got it and got off her diva role..
After many, many hours of considerations and participatory processes revealing layer upon layer of the mechanical nature of our programming, the great revelation finally occurred, The trainer, like Toto in Oz, “pulled back the curtains” and announced, “you get what you get”. Period.
“ Hello.... helllo...hello... is there anybody out there?”
You say you are not a teacher, Robert, but I think you are the best teacher because you tell the truth.
Thank you, Nicole. I am a truth teller, but life itself is the teacher, not. I. I can comment truthfully only on what is is like to be me--what I perceive, think, and feel--not what others should think or do. Each of us has our own row to hoe.
Yet again - thanks Robert.
Although your words are simply expressing things as you see them, they often resonate with me...affirmation still feels good, of course....haha!
All the best.
Yes. No one can decide what to feel.
This is rather marvellous Robert, thank you. Great comment on the depth of the (for some reason frequently unnoticed) desire to love.
Thank you, Crispin.
Yes. The anti-narcissism.
.. in an almost comically narcissism-promoting culture. No wonder so many don't notice their own need to love! Except perhaps in a demeaned form when watching cheesy animal videos with plinky canned music backgrounds. There's no authentic response to the world that can't be cheapened before being mined for a dollar. Though perhaps I'm being a tad snobbish. We all take our consolations where we can, and capacity to enjoy the existence of our nonhuman brothers and sisters is generally a decent sign that a person hasn't become entirely denatured.
Critter love can be a marvel.
Thanks Robert. Actually seeing the mechanical nature of the mind has given me an incredible sense of relief. UG and Niargadatta are two of my favorites. Just like them I never can detect an ounce of bs in you. Thanks again.
Thank you, John. I like both of them too.
The BS fell away years ago. The first listener to anything one says is oneself, so if you talk shit, you are shitting in your own bed. This is a key point.
Love the metaphor!
YES! Already..Complete..whole ..just as you are. TRULY nothing more to figure out or achieve! THX Robert for a great post.❣️
Just today I was wanting to get a large pizza for lunch. But then my mind started the back and forth about whether I should or shouldn't get it and what the right decision would be. I told myself that I already am pretty fit and healthy and that I can "afford" to have pizza. But then I thought that I shouldn't feel such desire for pizza and that I should be able to transcend and be free of such cravings and that I should always eat healthy. It was then that I noticed how I was grasping at transcending and being "spiritual", and this idea of how I should be superior to having the desire for pizza. But then I told myself to "lighten up" and that it was just pizza. I just laughed at myself and got the pizza... and since that desire had been fulfilled, my mind moved on to other issues it has. I did really enjoy eating it.